With the green movement being not just awhile ago, are we too late on saving the planet and getting rid of global warming? I can remember An environmentalist stating in the mid 1980's that if we don't do anything about the earth, danger could happen, which was stated about 20 years ago. So, do you think that the earth is too damaged to fix it? Discuss.

Personally I don't believe that there is sufficient evidence to suggest that Global Warming is true.

Since when is it the job of an economist to speculate about geographical weather changes.

Global warming.

Stock Markets.

Ice ages.

Economies.

They all have ups and downs, and all occur sometimes. Just like for the U.S. right now, we're in a recession, but we can't help it, it's just going to occur sometimes. The only thing we can do is wait it out and let it pass. Before the ice ages, there was evidence found in airpockets in ice that showed that temperatures on average were even warmer than now. Good enough proof for me.

No it's not too late Earth isn't imcredibly damaged, but most people are not motivated and don't seem to care.

It's kind of like Back to the Future part 2 where they thought 2015 was going to be really high techy but I don't think it will be.

We'll find out eventually, won't we

Not really. I don't think that they Earth will ever be too damaged to fix itself.

If we don't' survive it then we obviously weren't fit enough and evolution will do away with us.

Think of the situation as a trigger, pull it just a little too far and the whole thing goes off and escelates beyond control.

It may be too late to reverse the damage done. There is a massive hole in the ozone layer, icecaps are melting and the planet is heating up. What most people are failing to notice are problems such as the gulf stream shutting down and even more importantly, as sea temperature changes, the methane gas trapped under temperature and pressue in the sea bed is released. Methane is four times more volatile than CO2 as a green house gas. You pull the trigger far enough, and bang, methane bubbles up killing sea life (including photosynthetic plankton that is responsible for most of the worlds CO2 degredation - more than the worlds forests) - escapes into the atmosphere and increases the rate of global warming by 400% - literally. If you had a graph recording global warming, then line would go up exponentially. We are talking lifeless ball of earth and rock orbiting the sun here.

Either way the s*** is going to hit the fan soon because people just can't be bothered or don't think anything is going to happen. If ignorance is bliss, then many of the worlds politicians must be orgasming. Russia, Korea, Africa and the USA need to stop being bloody minded about these issues. Funnily enough, China has slowed down CO2 emissions dramatically and have invested a gigantic wedge of capital into renewable resources - and they are a growing economy unlike the ones formentioned (barring Africa) which are in recession.

Oh well, no one listens to scientists but are happy to point the finger of blame at them when something goes wrong. So what ever.

tbh the earth is a massive living thing, it will fix itself or it will take a bloody long time for it to die out

The Earth being too late?

It's not too late. The only problem as mentioned are the people, no one thinks anything will happen.
So when the ice caps melt, and (whats it called i the ocean?) The excess fresh water disrupts the current of salt water.

Well, Day After Tomorrow I suppose, and either way, the planet has had previous ice ages, all which occurred after the planet warmed up sufficiently, so if anything, we might not be in global warming but in the beginning process of another Ice Age.

Global warming doesn't exist.

Enjoy what the neocon leftist democrats have told you

I don't know what to say there is global warming, pollution, Ice Age, Global warming that leads to a ice age due to the density and so many things that I just lost track and stop caring.

For those who do not believe in global warming. Step outside. Look around.



You can see that river and sea levels have risen if you live near the coast.

Vast tracks of low lying land in Europe are being flooded by salinated water.

Plant species native to tropical and warmer regions are taking root in increasingly northern latitudes.

Animal species native to coldr climates are dying out.

Sea life is dying as the oceans warm up.

Infection diseases that rely on vectors present in warm climates are spreading North as those vectors such as the malaria carrying mosquito are able to survive.

These are just a few examples. Im not political, Im a scientist. Look at the facts and think for yourselves and stop thinking its all a government ploy.

sources please.

Why Sources?
If it's a widely accepted theory by scientists, why should you need sources?
If it were a widely accepted theory by politicians that's another story...

Sources? go on Google and type in 'proof of global warming', you'll probably get more than enough information from various places.

and if you live in New York, or near New York City then go to the National Museum of history, they'll have a nice part showing more than enough information that even a moron would be able to tell to some extent that our earth is warming up.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtm.../eacoral108.xml

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/feb...techange.uknews

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pict...ging/html/1.stm

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/c...and-429764.html

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/9-5-2006-107708.asp

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/372219.stm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6050401931.html

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pag...d=1196847287111

http://science.nationalgeographic.com/scie...gw-effects.html

http://www.climateark.org/shared/reader/we...0poor%20elderlyhttp://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...0_earthday.html

http://www.ecobridge.org/content/g_evd.htm#Increasing

http://www.ecobridge.org/content/g_evd.htm#Atmosphere

http://www.ecobridge.org/content/g_evd.htm#Spreading



There are a few sources. Its easy, just read the news papers or go outside. In the UK you can even notice things such as a decline in the native bee population and the invasion of plants from warmer climates. You may also want to check weather history and see the obvious rise in average winter tempterature and summer maximum.

I would also like to point out that I now work for the HPA - Health Protection Agency, a division of the NHS that studies and monitors the spread of disease. While I have been there, I have read papers by other researchers who have been there most of their lives on the rise in tropical disease incidence.



Im not just listening to what people say on the news, Im seeing it in my work.

Just for you Ronan; Scientists speak and no-one even hears about ideas.

And some graphs I drew up by knowing where to look:



This graph shows temperature anomalies from 2007 based on the mean from 1880-1980. As you can see, there are a lot of areas last year where temperatures were .2 to 4 degrees higher than the average over the last century. However, bear in mind that South America and the Antarctic actually recorded lower temperatures than previous averages.

Infact, if you look at the global mean difference in 2007 versus previous averages:

You can see that there's a huge divide between temperatures in the West and Eastern hemispheres.

At a look of Ground Surface Temperature Anomalies from 1880-2010, we can see that the temperature from 1880-1930 was lower than the average over the 130 year period:


However, when compared to actual mean temperatures, the real rise in temperatures actually begins in 1950 after a sharp fall.

I would like to point out something else which occurred in the 1950's which is illustrated by this graph:

As you can see, in the 1950's, the use of CFC's and HCFC's in industry was commenced. Now, whilst I hate stating the obvious, there does appear to be a rather strong correlation between these Haloalkanes which deplete the ozone layer - that which blocks UV rays - and a rise in temperature.

Infact, if we look at ozone layer losses since the 1970's, we can see that we've lost the most ozone by the 1990's - the hottest decade on record:


This also answers Ronan's point about the destruction of Plankton: Plankton are highly susceptible to changes in UV light. Infact, the extinction of Plankton 2 million years ago was linked to a nearby supernova which is theorised to have created Nitrogen Oxides which damaged the ozone layer.

The damaged ozone layer also accounts for many recent poor crop yields as many species of plants are also highly photo-sensitive.

There are of course also the issues of urbanisation on temperature levels and the closure of many global meteorological sites leading to a bias in temperature recording.

I would also however like to point out that 2008 is already showing serious anomalies against average temperatures.

The world was damaged beyond repair when Row was born.

In all seriousness, I have to agree with Row - there isn't sufficient evidence.

Correlation is MUCH different than cause and effect.

if only it was cold 24\7

then the tables would turn..




































GLOBAL FREEZING

Or just an Ice Age.

How is there not sufficient evidence? Please explain exactly what you want to see before you are convinced, because from what I've seen, I'm not really convinced its so much as global warming but just the planet in its natural phases leading up to a recycling, or I guess cleansing, via an Ice Age.

Has no one read previous posts, Rob and I have posted some links and information from a variety of sources (just the tip of the iceberg - what an ironic term) detailing different areas of concern. Either people are unable to look at previous posts or they really are unable to comprehend the problem.

I read your posts and the links... I'm currently talking to other scientists who are arguing against your points, I want to get both sides of the argument.

I'd like to know their explanation for the rising temperatures then.
Seriously, I'm curious as to their explaining the meaning of this rise in temperatures.

I hate to ask this but are you a complete imbecile Kol?

Did I not rather clearly state that destroying the ozone layer - that which filters out UV rays (You know, those things from the sun that make things hot?) - has been seriously lessened since the 1950's? I don't know if that's clear enough for you so, infact, I've drawn a small diagram:



And this is of course only one of the reasons for rising temperatures. You do of course have the greenhouse effect. Given how much my previous post appears to have been read, I'm not sure I can even be bothered, but I'll do it anyway:

The Earth's atmosphere naturally contains small parts of the "Greenhouse" gases - CO2, Methane, Nitrous Oxide and the CFC's. However, these are tiny, tiny amounts. Infact, the atmosphere is some 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen, 1% Argon and a mixture of all the greenhouse gases make up the final percent of the atmosphere.
Radiation from the sun - The UV Rays - hits the Earth and a lot of the heat is absorbed through various things - the ground, plants, people, surface water - but the rest reflects back up to the atmosphere. Some of this radiation is caught by the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere which absorb the radiation to act like a blanket for the earth. The trouble is, whilst greenhouse gases were something like 4 parts per million combined in the 1960's, C02 alone now makes up over 3 parts per million and the other greenhouse gases have similarly increased. What this means is that more heat on the way out is being absorbed. To give you an example, imagine you got a much thicker duvet on your bed - you get a lot hotter. But if you've got a radiator set to maximum right next to your bed as well as a thicker duvet, you're going to start sweating.

I personally believe the issue of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is less of a problem than the damage to ozone layer. This is simply because things can afford to get hotter without too much damage, but if you're putting photosensitive plankton and crops in danger, there's a much more imminent problem.

I don't think Carbon Dioxide affects the level of ozone in the atmosphere. Ozone depletion is mainly caused by CFC's, of which the use has been significantly lessened.

However, Carbon Dioxide as a greenhouse gas keeps the heat from UV rays in, so that does raise the temperature.

Wasn't aware I'd linked CO2 to Ozone depletion?

Don't call me an imbecile
I believe in global warming, I just don't think right now is just 100% global warming, the patterns of the Earth have shown it heats up right before entering an Ice Age, so I'm just a believer that we 'could' be just going along part naturally with the Earth's process.
Greenhouse effect and all yadeyada, I know, I know! Methane, pollution, Nitrous oxide, that stuff killing our ozone layer, holes letting in more rays, which get trapped under our ozone, I know, I believe it, I do, but I'm just more stuck on believing that we could always just be going through the natural phases of our planet which involved heating up then going into an Ice Age.

I'm not as much an imbecile as I am a stubborn teenager, that's all.

I agree been tryin to explain that to people for ages...

Global Warming, well basically here is my opinion(and explanation)... Now ever since life began on earth, things have been dieing(obviously). But what exactly does this pertain to... Well when Carbon Life dies, it is deposited.(Mostly on the bottom of oceans) Which is why crude oil is found underground.(other Carbon fuels include Coal, and Natural Gas) Over time the sediment(dead organisms) are exposed to extreme pressure, which seals them deep within the earth. Hence removing the carbon from the Atmosphere.

By burning fossil fuels(Carbon Fuels) we are releasing the carbon that nature took out of the environment back into it. Which in turn raises the temperature(Carbon dioxide being a "Greenhouse Gas") causing global warming. Many(by "many" I mean more than you can imagine) studies have been done on global warming. But because Intelligent life has such a limited view of time(thousands of years, as apposed to millions) it is impossible to come up with a bonafide answer as to what time span we truly have to fix our planet. Although we can prove that indeed the temperature is rising, but no one exactly knows what that means will happen.(Well yes sure ice will melt, anyone could tell that.)

We first started burning fossil fuels in the 1800's during the industrial revolution. But today the scale at which we use carbon based fuels is one hell of a lot larger than we did back then. The U.S uses aprox 6.6 billion barrels of oil a year.. that is aprox 18 million barrels a day. I won't even mention China. We have a long way to go if we truly want to stop "Global Warming".

My opinion- Well seeing as we have absolutely no clue what is going to happen(learn from the past) I will say with the oil reserves we have today, we will only last about ... 50 years maybe, tops. Unless there is a hell of a change in the way we do things, But honestly is there even a logical solution? Well of course there is... everyone has to pitch in.. so get out of your car and walk


Some data I've found-









some sites you can visit-

www.epa.gov/climatechange/
www.globalwarming.org
topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/globalwarming/index.html
www.climatehotmap.org
www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org
www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

Sorry, Rob, I got the idea that you were.

There are several other natural factors that cause Global Warming. The one I'll mention now is methane. Methane is a much more effective greenhouse gas than CO2. Methane is released in decomposed phytoplankton, volcano eruptions, and termite and cow farts. All of these are natural phenomena that contribute to a considerable percentage of global warming. Moreover, the mass-production of cows by the food industry isn't helping.

Well Volcanoes have been around since the earth was formed, they certainly contribute to global warming but they are not nearly as active as they were in the past. Mass production of cows is to feed all us fat Americans... so its not like thats gonna stop. And Methane has always been seeping out of the ocean floor. I guess we have no hope eh?

Some volcanos can actually cool down the earth.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/s...ing-409981.html

Clearly, the mass production of cows is not going to stop. However, it's just as responsible as is direct pollution. I simply labeled it as such. What's happening now in the west coast of Africa is that phytoplankton are decaying into the ocean floor. The floor becomes saturated with methane and "explodes," causing millions of fish to die and releasing large amounts of methane. This also causes a horrible stench.

I need to agree with Kol on the earth going to ice age idea.Like Zhou said methane is much more effective than CO2 and its a natural phenomena we burining oil and things like that is just speeding earth.Like kol said earth has allways gotten hotter before a ice age and its happening again but this time it is happening faster.Its not to late its just earth doing what its has to.

Yes, the Earth has always gotten hotter before an ice age, but this process usually takes hundreds if not thousands of years. You don't get almost a degree of difference in a decade.

You people are talking as if an Ice Age is a good thing.... Dramatic heat increases followed by savage Ice Ages wipe out millions of species and dramatically lessens biodiversity.

Yes, I know it sounds arsey, but please do a little reading into what happened during the last few ice ages, its in fossil records and has been covered in many books and tv programs. I'm sure they must *even* teach it in America... the place cant be *that* religious and intolerant of science

Hmmmm have you heard of the "Snowball Effect" or "Snowball Earth" theory? Its more of related to Nuclear warefare but... it could stop global warming lol